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Struggling- Surrendering - Hope
Derek Glanvill and Greg Holder Interview
November 3 and 4, 2007
The Struggling…
Greg: Derek was actually in Phoenix when he got the call from Penny at the scene of the accident. He had
a horrendous and scary flight back to St Louis, not knowing whether he would make it back in time. As I
saw him come into the room, he kissed his wife and looked over at the bed where his son lay, hardly
recognizable. He knelt down, held Sean’s hand and began to pray.
So Derek, we know this process isn’t a formula, so tell me how this went for you? How was it in the early
stages?
Derek: I just cant imagine anything more devastating than coming out of nowhere, you get the call to come
quickly, get there as soon as possible – there is not much time left. Your 12 year old child has been in a car
accident on the way to school and that they are loading him in the helicopter. Then the update after surgery that
he has less than 1 percent chance to live.
Especially the terror of the randomness of all of this. It was gut wrenching.
You talked about rogue waves. Let me tell you about my wave. It picked me up and then slammed me onto the
ocean floor and knocked me upside down. It had me gasping for breath, confused and not knowing which way
is up. It then tossed me out onto the beach – sand in my pants, salt in eyes – devastated.
You just can’t imagine…
Greg: After the initial shock, how did you struggle at first?
Derek: I knew that because I was grounded in my faith, I knew that I was allowed to ask questions about the
various attributes of God. I struggled just like Job, David, Jeremiah, and all the prophets that you just
mentioned. I questioned God just like Job. Like Jeremiah, I complained that God had deceived us. Like the
Psalmist, I wondered if God had abandoned us. I knew I could ask the “why” questions while not denouncing
God.
I also went through all the “if only’s” and kept trying to ask “why?”… Why? Why? Why?... this isn’t supposed to
happen... we had a good life going – everything was perfect. Why had this happened to Sean? Sean is a very
loving and kind kid - He doesn’t deserve this! He is the glue in the sandwich between our other two children...
our child that picked up our South African accent. This wasn’t supposed to happen. Take me… Not him!!!
I felt and knew that devastating pain was going to have its day with us because its undeniably and devastatingly
real. It pursues and chases until it catches up and is unrelenting/persistent. The pain of loss is severe because
the pleasure of life is so great; it shows the ultimate value of what we might lose. So from then, I knew that I
needed to confront the pain head on and yield to the tragedy though I had no idea what that would mean.
However, the potential death of my child might tempt me to become self pitying; but self-pity is not the result of
death, but a decision we make about the death. I realized that the experience of loss itself did not have to be the
defining moment of my life, instead the defining moment could be my response.
Greg: No matter who you are or what your faith, you play with those questions and doubts?
Derek: You are going to absolutely, undeniably going to go through those emotions. It’s that sucker punch that
hits you in the stomach. There’s no escaping it. You’re going to ask yourself these basic questions about
yourself and what you really believe and where you are headed with our life.
In particular, found myself in this no-mans land - In a barren present that is empty of meaning. I felt suspended
between the past which was gone and the future which is uncertain.
It forced me to ask basic questions about what is most important in life.
Greg: Then you weren’t doing this alone….?
Derek: No, not at all. There was the constant stream of visitors, many, many people constantly coming to the
hospital - from everywhere. And the calls from overseas, family arriving, managing the doctors, trying to
understand all the medical terms, my ongoing work responsibilities – all coming at me, again and again.
By default I had a leadership role and applied a business minded crisis management approach…Organizing,
planning…updating. All of these other people were looking to me to be the leader.
In addition, I questioned whether all these people were there to comfort me or were they wanting me to comfort
them? You see I am also the Dad, I’m supposed to fix it—I look at my wife and see it on her face... I see it from
everyone every day – all wanting answers too.
...so yes Greg, I still struggled… a lot... but I kept thinking - Why make things worse by losing God too? I realize
that He was the only foundation on which to build my broken life.
The Surrender…
Greg: Now, I know you pretty well, but in that struggle—especially early on—talk to me about how you
moved to a different place with all this.
Derek: There wasn’t actually one moment of surrender. For me, it was more of a continuous process, turning it
over again and again...
At first, I began to try to understand this intellectually. I began by approaching the problem with logic – Since I
am an Engineer…. I solve the problem – it’s what I do. … kid you about the dry erase board.
I also started talking with you and others. People also kept handing me books—and books are a good thing.
But then I realized that I’m doing all the thinking. Do you remember when you told me not to overthink this?
Then God started getting more of my attention. We kept praying for miracles and you remember that on four
different Saturdays we were told to say goodbye to Sean, yet each time……he pulled through and lived. The
doctors kept saying that Sean was surprising them.
I felt that God was listening to our prayers.
The books helped, but what I needed to do was to start exploring more of what the Bible had to say. Its rich in
testimonies of people suffering yet coming through to a richer life filled with God deeper in their lives. I knew
that I could learn a lot. And I also learnt that, just like Jesus, I needed to spend time alone with God, in solitude.
So I spent more time alone with God at the side of Sean’s bed.
I needed also to spend time with the right people and be okay with sometimes saying “no” to others. I started
praying and gathering friends and family around us who would go to God with us. As I did, I prayed to God over
and over again ... ”Father God - it’s in your hands! I’ve been trying to do this myself. Its in Your hands!”
I began turning it over (and over and over again). And I knew he was listening.
There’s no doubt this is the strongest feeling I have had of God’s presence. He was clearly present. And so
surrendering for me was this very active process of relentlessly trusting Him – with Him right in the middle of it.
The bottom line and what I will tell folks is that we just need to Trust God – Period.
Greg: So for some people this word “surrender” is such an empty word. Is it passive? Is it a
copout?
Derek: No, no… It’s not about giving up. It’s real!. It’s not passive! It’s about actively and relentlessly trusting
Him – with Him right in the middle of it. You keep turning it over to Him…again & again. Just like Job, you stop
asking questions because you realize that in meeting God, you have no more questions to ask. God was the
answer to all my questions, even questions I had not asked. I found meaning in the ineffable presence of God.
As Job concluded “yet thou he slay me, I will praise Him” and to Jesus “nevertheless, not my will but yours be
done”... I felt I had given it to Jesus – laid it at the foot of the cross.
This begins to define who we are. It is about trusting God in the middle, in this “in-between” time… this side of
eternity. I finally just said –“it’s in your hands, I’ve been trying to do this on my own.”
The more I surrendered, the deeper was the sense of peace & comfort.
Greg: But Derek, as amazing and courageous as you and Penny have been, let me ask you a pretty blunt
question that some people are wondering about: why would you trust him? Why trust a God who would
allow this to happen?
Derek: I will tell you that this is a big answer. There is no quick fix formula (which is what I wanted) and it’s what
we talk about here at Windsor from time to time in classes like Explorations. In the last months, I have studied
issues like sovereignty, fairness, and all the difficult intellectual questions but don’t have time here to go into
them all. I also have many excellent resources for people way smarter than me that I can give to those who
need it.
Although this is one of God’s mysteries that I don’t think we every fully get this side of heaven, I have reached a
point where I have enough understanding. A very short answer to something I could talk about for hours goes
something like this:
God gave us freedom so we could come to him in love. Freedom is what makes love possible in the first place.
That is why God will never coerce us into a relationship. Faith allows us to choose God in freedom. The
opportunity to make a choice is a divine gift.
We’ve made a mess of things….we now live in broken world because of our sin . . . that means things happen
to each of us. God could take away the “randomness” but be would also be taking away freedom.
So loss may call the existence of God into question. Pain seems to conceal him from us, making it hard for us
to believe that there could be a God in the midst of our suffering. In our pain we are tempted to reject God, yet
for some reason we hesitate to take that course of action. So we ponder and pray. We move toward God, then
away from him. We wrestle in our souls to believe. Finally we choose God, and in the choosing we learn that
he has already chosen us and has already been drawing us to him. We approach him in our freedom, having
minds that can doubt as well as believe, hearts that can feel sorrow as well as joy, and wills that can choose
against God as well as for him. We decide to be in a relationship with God. And then we discover that God, in
his sovereignty, has already decided to be in a relationship with us.
I think I have reached a level of enough of this understanding.
Greg: Okay, big big answer that we really could keep talking about. If this is one that the rest of you would
like more answers on, we’ve got some CDs and books. But Derek, even if all that is true (and I happen to
think you’re right) but even then, why didn’t God make this horrible, horrible wrong
right?
Derek: But he did! It may not be my plan nor my timing….. but God did make things right through his son
Jesus. Jesus tool all of human suffering upon himself to a degree that we cannot begin to understand. It’s also
important to know that God feels my pain—he knows what it’s like to lose a son. God took all that pain for us by
allowing the suffering of His own most beloved Son to make it right for us.
It might not fully make sense to us, but it makes sense to God and that’s enough for me.
And that’s where the hope comes from. Death doesn’t get the last word. Suffering doesn’t get the last word.
Our horribly random tragedy doesn’t get the last word. There’s more to the story. He corrected, redeemed this
story . . .
Greg: So you’re trusting that God knows what he’s doing—even if things sometimes don’t see fair? So,
does this come down to your favorite word?
Derek: Yes, that’s it for me. It gets down to this wonderful free gift called God’s grace… My favorite word…
Grace.
So yes— I choose a world of grace over a world of absolute fairness. The problem with expecting to live in a
perfectly fair world is that there is no grace in that world, for grace is only grace when its undeserved.
A fair world may appear to make life nice for us, but only as nice as we are… We may get what we deserve, but I
wonder how much that is, and whether or not we would really be satisfied? A world with grace will give us more
than we deserve. It will give us life, even in our suffering.
It means that I have to endure the bad I don’t deserve, but I also get the good I don’t deserve. I dread
experiencing this undeserved pain, but its somehow okay to me, if I can experience undeserved grace.
Although the sadness still sneaks up, and it does for sure… sometimes comes in waves... There’s a peace I've
never experienced before. At the end of the day… God’s grace simply becomes sufficient for us.
For me… it's enough… Grace is enough.
The Hope…
Greg: So that’s what you cling to?
Derek: Sometimes that’s all you cling to.
We also cling to Hope. Hope that God will intervene now. Hope that life can still be life and not some hollow
existence. Hope that we'll laugh and love and enjoy the gifts still present in our lives--first, perhaps, in fleeting
moments. But then in more lingering, deeper moments. And eventually, richer, fuller moments of joy that can
somehow exist alongside the reality of our pain.
I don’t know how this part of the story ends or what the next chapter is... my son is still in a coma. But we cling to
the hope this isn’t the end.
And this begins to define who we are. Its about trusting God right in the middle of this. And we hang onto the
eternal hope – the promised healing of all hurts at the end of Revelation. We hang on to this hope and deal
with the pain we feel during this "in-between" time…. This side of eternity. Because we know that for those who
believe - God will wipe away all our tears. We know that then… we will see Sean run again, hug his mother,
hear his laugh…
So, we face the future with these assurances, having witnessed God's miracles already… having felt his
undeniable presence and life changing Spirit in us. We have a deeper sense that God has a purpose and a
plan for us.
Greg: Even for Sean….
Derek: Prior to the accident, Sean and I had great talks about his faith…especially on the road on the many
hockey trips we took. Sean knows Jesus and I am confident that Sean and Jesus are talking.
Greg: Over time, God begins to pour meaning into those old wounds . . . how we can eventually help others
and be a source of comfort and strength . . . how we even laugh again . . . different perspective . . . but even
in this life, there is this ability, this grace to live.
Derek, am I overstating this?
Derek: This isn’t just a sad story . . . my life is different, but full. Since the accident, God has become a living
reality to me as never before. My confidence in God is stronger. I feel little pressure to impress God or prove
myself to him; yet I want to serve him with all my heart and strength. My life is full of richness, even as I continue
to feel the pain of loss. I have learned that tragedy can increase the soul’s capacity for good and bad. The soul
is elastic, like a balloon. It can grow larger through suffering. Loss can enlarge its capacity for anger,
depression, despair, and anguish, whenever we experience loss. Once enlarged, the soul is also capable of
experiencing greater joy, strength, peace and love.
I might be because I have learned that it is not what happens to us that matters as much as what happens in
us. We cannot change the situation, but we can allow the situation to change us. Darkness, it is true, had
invaded my soul. But then again, so did light. Both contributed to my personal transformation.
Grace is transforming me, and it is wonderful. I am learning where God belongs and have allowed him to
assume that place – at the center of life rather than in the periphery. No matter what we face, our family and I
will take this life with God.
Greg: Derek wanted to do this with me today, not because we’re at the end of Sean’s story, because
honestly, we don’t know how things will go—we keep praying big prayers. But Derek and Penny agreed to
help us with this so that we could talk about hope. Suffering does not get the last word.
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